Episode #5

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hi, welcome to It's a Kinetic Thing with Karen K. This is Karen, and today we're going to talk about some different aesthetic topics. [00:00:06] Speaker B: So let's talk about Botox. Kind of dive deep into that. And if it's bad for you, good for you. The different kinds. I know there's a new one out that we kind of briefly talked on. [00:00:16] Speaker A: Yeah. So all of those neuromodulators or neurotoxins, they're all a base of botulinum toxin. And what they do, how they work, is you inject them into the muscles in your face sometimes, other places they paralyze that muscle or weaken it. And so when you're making faces, facial expressions, the wrinkles don't show up as much. A lot of trends right now for younger people to do that preventatively so that they don't get the permanent wrinkles. And once you have static wrinkles, where even when your face is at rest, it's not animated and those wrinkles are set, the toxins not going to work very well. So you want to get them when they only the wrinkles are showing up when you move your face, move the face muscles or before. [00:01:05] Speaker B: So it's botulism, which sounds like a bad word. [00:01:08] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:01:09] Speaker B: So how, how does that, like for someone that really wants to be clean and only put products in them that are healthy, is it tell us, kind of explain botulism? [00:01:17] Speaker A: Well, you know, it was originally a. A bacteria that obviously in huge doses can cause lots of issues. But in the purified form used for aesthetic injection, it's very safe. It's been around forever. The effects are pretty temporary. Usually about three to four months, it wears off. We don't do it in anyone pregnant or nursing, just because there's no drug company that's going to experiment and research on pregnant and nursing women. But it's been proven safe and effective. Now you want to get in the hands of an experienced injector. You can always a smile crooked, you can drop an eyebrow, you can drop an eyelid if you inject it into the wrong muscle, if you have a good experienced injector, those risks are pretty minimal. And even if they do happen a lot of times, times we can inject an opposing muscle because for every muscle that lifts, there's a muscle that pulls out. And so you can usually fix an issue. And again, it's temporary. Really not a lot of danger unless you've got like some Bell's palsy, Mycenae gravis, something like that, that affects the nervous Muscles anyway, it could make it weaker. There's been a few studies of overzealous injectors injecting a lot around the neck and throat and people having some difficulty swallowing for a short time. Things like that. You just want to get a good injector. And I always, if you've not had it before, you know, it's better to start conservative. You can always add more. If you overdose, then you just gotta wait and let it wear off. [00:02:51] Speaker B: So Botox is really like generic term for all of it. Like there's Kleenex, but there's different brands. So there's a lot of brands of. [00:02:58] Speaker A: There is a lot of brands out there. There's Xeomin, Dysport, Botox, Jeuveau. There's a new Daxify, Ledibo I believe is another new one. They all pret much work the same. Some of the newer ones are claiming they last longer, but in practical study, I'm not showing that that really happens. I'm not one that always jumps on the first new one that comes out. I wait and see. And as I've waited and watched, there's usually been a letdown. So I'm pretty loyal to Dysport. There's others, people that are very loyal to Botox, but they all work in the same way. They're not going to give you any volume, which is common misconception. People think, you know, I'm going to inject Botox in my lips. That's really not going to give you volume. You certainly don't put it in your cheeks. It's just in those places where when you animate, your face move muscles, you wrinkle. [00:03:52] Speaker B: And so the other thing that you hear about, of course with social media, there's always controversy. People get mad if you're talking about getting Botox, but people starting now, earlier and earlier in life to prevent the wrinkles from happening. [00:04:04] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:04:04] Speaker B: Is that something that you think is a good idea? [00:04:07] Speaker A: I think it can be for the right person, especially if you know your genetics. You know, you look at your mom, your grandma, you see how they wrinkled. I think some early conservative tox is, is a good thing to keep the wrinkles from forming. You know, one thing that does happen over time with people that have been doing toxins for a long time, they will start to develop kind of an immunity to it where it doesn't work as well or as at all anymore. And so you may have to rotate to a different toxin. Like I said, they're all botulinum toxin, but they are Mixed with different proteins, different preservatives. And so sometimes one will work better for some people than the other. And you just don't know until you try. I mean, my. Personally, I've injected a ton of Botox in my face from the very first time I ever did it. It does not work at all on me. [00:04:57] Speaker B: Oh, wow. [00:04:58] Speaker A: The reps kept saying it can't be happening. It doesn't work on me at all. But Xeomin and Dysport work great for me. And I've had people that are the opposite. So sometimes you just have to experiment a little. [00:05:12] Speaker B: And so if you do have one that stops working, switching to a different brand might actually kick it back in. [00:05:16] Speaker A: Usually it will help, definitely. Then over time, you're going to need more. Obviously, you're getting more wrinkles, you're aging, and your body's getting some tolerance to it. So, you know, if you've gone along for 5, 10 years getting 30 units, you may need 40, 50 units as you get older and are doing more and more of it. [00:05:37] Speaker B: And that was going to be my next. Next question is, is there like an estimate of what it would be? But it sounds like everybody's different and aging also changes that number. [00:05:48] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, and also what kind of result you're looking for. [00:05:53] Speaker B: Right. Okay. [00:05:54] Speaker A: And then there is some medical uses for the toxins as well. You know, botoxins or any of the other ones can be injected like in the head, the scalp, the back of the neck. A lot. With migraine headaches, we found they actually dilute it and use it in the bladder for bladder spasms. People that have neck spasms or tight necks, you can inject in the. In the neck and shoulder muscles. So there is medical uses for those as well. [00:06:26] Speaker B: And I'm not going to say this right, I don't think, but microdosing, what is that? And how does that relate to regular just getting injections? [00:06:33] Speaker A: So microdosing is just using much smaller amounts and more, you know, usually smaller amounts in certain areas and maybe the injection spaced closer together, but it's the same ideal. It's still there to just reduce wrinkles. [00:06:52] Speaker B: Okay. And then I don't know if this is a myth or if this. But it makes sense to me. If you go like, it averages three months between three to four, depending on how much and who you are. If you try to get your next dose at that same marker, at three months, say three months versus letting it go four to five, do you have to. Does it make you do less or do you have to do more because you've let the muscle wear all the way off? [00:07:14] Speaker A: Again, that somewhat depend on the person. But we do recommend you do regular dosing schedules. And what we don't want is for people to be too conservative. They underdose, and then they want to come back much sooner than the 90 days or four, three to four months, and then it ends up being not as effective. Then if you do a therapeutic dose the first time, you're more likely to get longer longevity out of it. [00:07:45] Speaker B: But if you get some and then you feel like you need a little bit more. So if you wait, do you have to wait a period of time to get like a little bit extra dose? [00:07:51] Speaker A: We usually say, you know, let it settle for about two weeks. Okay. So that you really see the full effect. And then if we need to add a little bit more, we can. And I, I do that pretty often on, on my people that have not done it before or that I've never injected before. Cause like I said, I'd rather a little bit at that two week mark, then overdose them and drop an eyebrow or an eyelid or something. [00:08:16] Speaker B: And so that kind of brings up another question. So there is ways, like if you feel like you've got droopy eyebrows, that you can actually lift it based on where you put the Botox or the. [00:08:25] Speaker A: Injection sometimes you definitely can. Pretty often, like I said, you get an experienced injector. Every muscle that lifts has an imposing muscle that pulls that down, vice versa. So, you know, you can get a Spock eyebrow where one eyebrow is going way up. So you inject the opposing muscle, it brings it back down, or maybe they like that Spock look. Then you go back and inject the other side to cause it to happen on both sides. So there are things you can do if you have an unexpected event. [00:08:56] Speaker B: And then my last question with Botox is, as you get older, like somebody in their 60s versus somebody in their 30s, would you inject in different areas based on just aging in general? [00:09:07] Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. I mean, usually your younger people that are doing more preventative will sprinkle a little bit across their forehead and always that line between their eyebrows. [00:09:18] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:09:19] Speaker A: But as you get older, you're probably, you know, going to start needing some around the eyes. In the crow's feet, you get those marionette lines where the corner of your mouth start to turn down. We can treat that area. You get those bands in your neck when you kind of grit your teeth down together and that kind of pulls your jowls down, makes Them saggy, so we can eject that area to help lift as well. And those are things you don't normally do on a young person. [00:09:45] Speaker B: Okay, so the key is getting a good injector. [00:09:48] Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. [00:09:49] Speaker B: Knowing who you're going to for injections. [00:09:51] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:09:52] Speaker B: Okay, so let's move on to filler. And I guess just like Botox, there's many different kinds of fillers depending on what you need. [00:09:58] Speaker A: There is. So most all of the fillers, the majority of them are hyaluronic acid. So our body makes that anyway. It attracts water to it and causes the skin to plump. We use a lot of skin care products that have hyaluronic acid, body products that have hyaluronic acid to make your skin moisturized and dewy and plump. But we actually inject it in kind of a gel form into the face. Now, there are a few other fillers out there that are made of other things, but the majority of them, your Juvederm products, your Restylane products, Belotera, most of those are hyaluronic acid. And the whole point with dermal fillers is to plump to replace volume that you lose as you age or just to plump in general. You've got really thin lips, you want fuller lips. That's where the fillers come in. You have jowls, you get those lines under your eyes, that's all volume loss. And so filler will go in and replace that volume. Big thing with filler right now is it is starting to kind of fall out of favor just because, you know, we used to say the most common fillers last about nine months, some 12. But now they're seeing that actually there can be signs of filler there much beyond that period of time and that filler can migrate. Some of the newer, what they call cross linked fillers, we noticed especially during COVID that people were having delayed almost like allergic reactions where, you know, there was concern that there's some interaction with the virus and the filler. So maybe they had filler two years ago, which theoretically it should be gone. And they get Covid and now their face is swelling and interesting breaking out and lumps. So there's a kind of a push right now for more natural based fillers where maybe they draw your blood and spin it down and use your own plasma, turn it into a gel and inject that. It's a little more cost effective, a little less risky for allergic reactions and migration. And so that's kind of one of the interesting things that's happening right now is is people are kind of turning away a little bit. Some people are to. To fillers. [00:12:18] Speaker B: And so there's also one that actually uses your. You inject it, but it's like a long. It takes a while for it to show up and then you're. It builds up collagen in your plotting. [00:12:26] Speaker A: Yeah, those are. We consider those bio stimulators. They're not really a dermal filler, but you do get some immediate feeling effect from just the fluid and the product there. But over time, it tricks your body into producing more collagen and so you get a more subtle natural effect. So that's things like maybe Radiesse or Sculptra is the one that's most people you are familiar with. [00:12:53] Speaker B: And so kind of back to your original. When you just talked about people kind of getting away from filler and doing more natural, do you think at that at some point the filler companies, the ones that make the fillers, are going to come up with additional products or new products that kind of tie into all that? [00:13:08] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, they're coming up with new product every day right now. Again, majority of them are hyaluronic acid, but they, the. The different fillers have different properties. Some of them are a little thicker than others, less elastic, less movement. Some are thinner, so they look more natural. And so you kind of base what you want to do with what type of filler, how thick it is, how elastic it is. So like if you're feeling lips and you want subtle lips and you just kind of want to feel the lines, you don't want a lot of volume. You'd use a thinner, more elastic filler. If you're trying to raise cheeks and you want to, you know, inject on those cheekbones to give that face some lift, then you're going to use a much thicker, less, less elastic filler in that area. [00:13:54] Speaker B: And can you. I think this is the number one thing I hear all the time. You can't put filler underneath your eyes for the. When it starts hollowing out. Can you do that with some of these? [00:14:03] Speaker A: You know, if you've got kind of hollow tear troughs, you can do filler in there. But if you've just got super thin skin under your eyes and it's, you know, right up at your lash line, usually filler's not the answer for that. You're going to see lumps and bumps and it's not going to good. So again, you want an injector that is going to give you. That's skilled and Knowledgeable and it's going to give you an honest assessment of, yeah, this is the right thing for you, or no, you're not a good candidate for filler. [00:14:35] Speaker B: And then everybody talks about peptides and we've talked about that a lot. Is there anything new coming peptide wise for spatial areas? [00:14:43] Speaker A: You know, the biggest peptide out there right now is a copper based peptide. We know copper actually stimulates collagen and it's almost like a fertilizer for collagen. So there's a lot of copper based foams and cleansers and creams that they're using to stimulate collagen on your face. Not any injectable that I'm aware of right now, but copper in a skincare product is definitely on the way up. And then, you know, the new and a big peptide that everybody's talking about is nad. And nad, again, just is really important for all your cells for overall health immunity. Collagen stimulation, which makes healthy, glowing skin. And so they are doing, you know, a lot of people are doing NAD injections or infusions just for their skin. [00:15:39] Speaker B: And that is an injection that's not topical, right? [00:15:42] Speaker A: It's not topical. There are some oral nads out there. I haven't seen great results from them. They make an NAD nasal spray that seems to be absorbing pretty well and people are liking. But really the standard is either subcutaneous or into the fat injections or IV infusion. [00:16:04] Speaker B: Okay, I was going to ask about that. So people are getting them via IVs as well. [00:16:08] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:16:09] Speaker B: So it's kind of an overall. It helps everything, not just your skin. [00:16:13] Speaker A: Yeah, it's really interesting. There's, there's a clip on a scene on Facebook and tick tock with Haley Bieber and Kendall Jenner and they're like, how often can you get nad? And you know, and they're laying on a couch getting NAD infusions and asking can they do it every day? And they feel so great and oh, wow. Yeah. [00:16:34] Speaker B: So is there obviously something else in the bag besides nad? Is it like just saline? [00:16:39] Speaker A: Yeah, usually saline. Or just a regular IV solution that you would. Is kind of the vehicle that you put the NAD in. Or you can put other vitamins and things in. [00:16:48] Speaker B: Is there one better than the other? The injection in your stomach versus an IV bag? [00:16:52] Speaker A: I would say the IV is probably the gold standard and what all the research has been done on. But you know, a lot of people don't have the time or the money to come in twice a week for an IV infusion. They don't want to be stuck and sit there for an hour and a half, two hours. So the sub Q, I would say, is next best. [00:17:13] Speaker B: Okay. Because, yeah, that is time consuming. [00:17:15] Speaker A: It is, yeah. And when with the sub hue, you can take it home, you can be taught to inject yourself. And it's a quick, easy, painless. [00:17:22] Speaker B: And that's usually twice a week on the injections, yes. And then do you. Have you seen people like before and afters where you really notice a difference in their skin? [00:17:30] Speaker A: I can't say that I've actually. In others, I think, you know, I've been doing NAD now for about three, four months, and I definitely noticed a difference in my own. I'm horrible about taking selfies, but. [00:17:45] Speaker B: Yeah, no, I tell a difference in you. [00:17:48] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:17:48] Speaker B: I feel like every time I come in, you look thinner and you look younger every time I see you. So it's definitely working on you. It is. [00:17:55] Speaker A: And it's interesting for me, you know, a couple things with NAD is it's so much easier for me to maintain my goal weight without doing other things. And that's just, you know, I don't have any research, but it seems like I'm able. Like, my body has picked about a five pound lighter, stable weight. And I stick there really easy and don't have to do as much. And then I sleep like a long. I mean, I used to stay awake and read for hours before I could go to sleep. And I'd get up once or twice to go the restroom and any little noise would wake me up, and I won't do that anymore. [00:18:37] Speaker B: And you think it's nad? [00:18:38] Speaker A: Sure, it's the nad. I mean, it's pretty profound of my sleep prior to and my sleep after I started. [00:18:45] Speaker B: That's so crazy. I need that in double doses. Okay, so let's move on to microneedling. [00:18:51] Speaker A: Okay. [00:18:52] Speaker B: Radio frequency micro needling. [00:18:54] Speaker A: There are two forms of microneedling. There's just standard microneedling. And then now the latest is they've added radio frequency microneedling. So those needles are energized with radio frequency. And it's really interesting if you look at kind of the history of microneedling, it came from the tattoo world. [00:19:15] Speaker B: Oh, really? [00:19:16] Speaker A: Yeah. There was a physician that was working with a tattoo artist to tattoo skin tones over unsightly scars. And they were tattooing, you know, just trying to hide the redness or the discoloration. And they were noticing, not only did they look better, but the scars got thinner and more flat and less noticeable. Even without the ink. And so that was kind of the history of how microneedling became, you know, came around. And so, you know, the early start was these little skin pins or other things that had a little head with a bunch of needles. And they work like a tattoo needle. They just go in and out, in and out. And what it does is it tricks your body into saying, hey, I've had an injury here. And what your body does to heal itself is rush in there with collagen and fibrin to help heal needle. And what they were noticing when they started doing this is that pores were looking smaller. Overall tone and texture was looking better. And it, you know, just, it helped with scarring and, and some discoloration. And then this next generation, they've added radio frequency to those needles, which adds heat, which adds energy, which causes more tightening, more collagen production, more elasticity. And it's really kind of microneedling on steroids. It's got some bad press lately too. Things like Morpheus 8, Potenza, Genius. All of those are the brand names of the radio frequency microneedling. You know, what I say is, again, does great work in the right hands with a knowledgeable user, you get someone who's inexperienced, they're too aggressive with the energy, you can cause facial fat loss, which causes everything to droop, you know, and look worse. You can get burns. So again, you want to get in the hands of an experienced provider who knows how much energy, energy should go on that needle, what depth you want to be working at to accomplish what you want and that, you know, use very good clean technique and is not accidentally micro needling things into your skin that you don't want in your skin, like the numbing cream and things like that. [00:21:35] Speaker B: You could still do it without the heat if you wanted to. But if you wanted addition benefits, the heat really makes a difference. [00:21:41] Speaker A: The heat makes a great difference in the right hands. With the right energy of really tightening, you know, you can use it again if you want to melt fat. Someone that has a double chin, you can use that to kind of liquefy that fat, melt that fat, and then with the right energy and depth, tighten the skin after the fat is gone. It does amazing work on scars. I wish our viewers could see. I have a nasty surgical scar on my stomach that almost looked. It was thick and ropey and spread out and it's almost disappeared after about four or five treatments. [00:22:20] Speaker B: Wow. [00:22:20] Speaker A: It's a hypertrophic scar. Some people call it a keloid. It's not a keloid. But that's the common thing people think it is, is a keloid scar. [00:22:28] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:22:29] Speaker A: But yeah, it's done amazing stretch marks. It works great if you've got little areas of focal fat that you just. Nothing else is working. You got a little saddlebag, you got that roll over the top of your bra. I mean we can, we can really kind of melt that fat and smooth that skin. So it's pretty amazing. [00:22:49] Speaker B: You can not only just use it on your face, which it's great for your face. [00:22:52] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:22:52] Speaker B: You can use it other parts of your body. [00:22:54] Speaker A: Other parts of the body. I've lifted a lot of those little saggy top of the knees. [00:22:58] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:22:59] Speaker A: With Amorpheus. And then the other thing it does really well is for people that have excessive sweat in their under palms of their hands, soles of feet. It actually can go deep enough in the hands of the right injector, the right depth with the right energy, you can destroy sweat glands. Those people that, you know, can't ever wear a white T shirt. Now wear a white T shirt and it's permanent. [00:23:25] Speaker B: Wow. So how does that feel in the underarm? [00:23:27] Speaker A: It's uncomfortable, but typically we'll do a numbing cream and then even after the numbing cream takes effect, inject some actual numbing lidocaine down deeper. Has to kill those sweat glands. You've got to have a fairly deep microneedle and high energy. So it's tolerable in the right hands with the right prep. But it can be real uncomfortable if you don't have the right prep. [00:23:56] Speaker B: Yeah, I bet. So you have the Morpheus 8 is what you use. Can you then go back as you're doing the microneedling with the heat and do prp or does that even, does that make it better? Does it how? What do you feel about that? [00:24:10] Speaker A: Yeah, you can do prp, which is platelet rich plasma. So that's when we draw people's blood, we spin it all down, we get rid of the red blood cells and just take the plasma. With traditional microneedling, you would actually needle that plasma into the skin. [00:24:25] Speaker B: Okay. [00:24:26] Speaker A: So you'd spread it on and needle over with the radio frequency microneedling. You can't do that because the heat would destroy your plasma. So you microneedle first with the radio frequency microneedling and then you add the PRP on the end and that will boost your results and decrease your downtime, decrease your healing time so you look back to normal much sooner and you can get some great results with that. [00:24:52] Speaker B: And then what's the difference between PRP and exosomes, Because I know you do use exosomes. [00:24:57] Speaker A: Yeah. So the downside of PRP drawing your own blood and using your own plasma is it's only as healthy as you are. It's the same age as you are. So when we get exosomes, a lot of those are derived, the good ones, from either umbilical cord tissue or placental tissue that the exosomes have been extracted and sterilized and all that. Well, that's a young, healthy baby whose body's growing and dividing cells like craz crazy. So with a good exosome, you're going to get better results than you would most likely if you're a 60 year old using your own plasma. [00:25:37] Speaker B: Wow, that's so crazy. And so you can get exosomes. I mean, you guys, do you sell them or do you just use them when you're giving treatments? [00:25:45] Speaker A: So those we use just when we're doing treatments. So we'll either apply them topically after we've done a laser treatment or like the radio frequency microneedling. There are some that are made to inject, so we, we can inject them into the scalp and they'll help with hair loss and inject them into the face for just collagen stimulation. And then we do quite a bit of joint injections with them. So we've had people. My own personal experience is I tore my rotator cuff and they wanted to do surgery. It wasn't a horrific tear, but it was painful, it was uncomfortable. I elected to have my shoulder injected with exosomes instead. And that was probably three years ago. I don't have pain anymore. The tear's not there, they can't find it and I can. I have completely normal range of motion, so it was completely worth it for me to have that joint injected. We've had a couple of gentlemen that have really bad knees and they like to snow ski, but pain in their knees were so bad that they were about ready to have to give that up. And we've injected their knees and they go off and they're snow skiing and they're happy and they're pain free and they love it. [00:27:00] Speaker B: Wow, that's crazy that you can eliminate surgery sometimes. Improved and so on the microneedling, how often should you have it done and then what's the downtime when you have it done? [00:27:13] Speaker A: So typically, whether we're talking about plain microneedling or microneedling with radio frequency, the usual recommended course is you do three treatments a month apart. And then it'll take up to six months to see the full results of that series of three. And then you want to do one depending on your age and what type of laxity you're trying to correct. Maybe one, just a single treatment every six to 12 months. Because you're going to continue to age, you're going to continue to lose collagen. And that just kind of gives you a little boost, a little head start so you're ahead of mother nature a little bit. [00:27:50] Speaker B: And then the downtime after you get it done. [00:27:52] Speaker A: Downtime depends on the person, but I would say average is about 72 hours where you're going to look kind of red, splotchy, like you've been crying or been sunburned. In my experience, the more olive complexed you are, the quicker you heal. Myself usually the next day you can't tell I did anything. Someone that's blonde hair, blue eyed or red hair and freckles, it may take them 70 to 96 hours before the redness calms down. [00:28:20] Speaker B: But you're not going to scab or peel or anything like that. It's more just redness and it's mostly redness. [00:28:26] Speaker A: You may look, like I said, a little blotchy. You may get slight peeling. But you shouldn't be scabby if you're, if you're scabbing over there, something's wrong. [00:28:36] Speaker B: It didn't too deep. Yeah, I think so. The key with this, with everything you've been talking about today is know who you're going to know who you're going to reputable. [00:28:44] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. I wouldn't go to somebody that opened yesterday and got trained the day before. [00:28:49] Speaker B: Yeah. And make sure they are trained on it. [00:28:51] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:28:52] Speaker B: Well, okay. So I have, obviously there's tons of trends out there and crazy things that people put on their skin to look younger. So I'm gonna name, I'm gonna call these out and then you tell me from a scale of 1 to 10 where you rate them on effectiveness. Beef tallow, probably a two. Okay. Exosomes we just talked about. [00:29:12] Speaker A: Yeah, I would say nine. [00:29:13] Speaker B: Nine. [00:29:14] Speaker A: Slugging zero. [00:29:17] Speaker B: We should probably do negatives and go the other way. Retinol. [00:29:21] Speaker A: Retinol for the right person. The right retinol I would say is an 8. [00:29:26] Speaker B: Salmon sperm. [00:29:27] Speaker A: I'll be honest, I don't have any experience with that. I'm hearing great things, but I haven't used it, tried it. So I'm going to say question mark. Yeah. [00:29:36] Speaker B: It's interesting because I'm hearing good things. About it, too, but it just sounds bizarre to me. [00:29:41] Speaker A: Face tape, I would probably say a one. It's. If you're really skilled at hiding it, you might get a little improvement just for a special event, but when it's gone on and anything where you're tugging and pulling on skin is really not healthy for your skin. [00:29:56] Speaker B: Yeah, that makes sense. Red light or LED therapy. [00:29:59] Speaker A: I would say somewhere between an 8 and a 10. [00:30:02] Speaker B: And then medical skin care. [00:30:03] Speaker A: 10. [00:30:04] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:30:04] Speaker A: Microneedling again in the right hands. 10. [00:30:08] Speaker B: Okay. And then nads. [00:30:09] Speaker A: I'm going to give it a 10. I love it. [00:30:11] Speaker B: Yeah. Okay, well, that's all for today.